Post by isaacjoule on Oct 12, 2004 19:28:38 GMT -5
Zakus in SEED Destiny
*Before I start, I want you all to know, this is INTENDED to inflame people. It's a VERY polarized essay I've written. It also contains various spoilers from each series. But I think everyone here has seen almost all, if not all, of Gundam.*
When Gundam SEED came out in 2002, I was distressed at the use of Haro in the series. After all, Haro was a well known and well loved Universal Century character and he was suddenly being shrunk down to 1/4th his original size and given a new paint job. I was outraged. "I liked the original Haro! This was some new imposter!" I thought. But over time, I grew tolerance for Haro "2". I actually liked Haro 2's commentary (annoying as it could be).
Now we're faced with Zakus. So far, there are approximately 6 types of Zaku variants thus far in SEED. At first I was outraged. "The Zaku is a well known and loved UC MS that doesn't belong in another series." I thought.
In less time than it took for me to get over Haro, I've gotten over the Zaku. Who cares if it's a UC MS name in an AU series. Why does it matter? "Zaku" is a name. That's all it is. By the same token 'Zaku' shouldn't be used, the name Gundam' shouldn't be used either. Which means G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Endless Waltz, Turn-A, Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny shouldn't have existed - or at least not using the terms "Gundam" "Mobile Suit" "Beam Saber." For that matter, Sai Argyle shouldn’t exist because someone named Sai was in G Gundam. Ridiculous? I think so.
For that matter, we can apply it all over the place. After Getter Robo GO, there are no solid continuations in the Getter Robo Saga. 'Getter Robo: Armageddon' LOOSELY combines Getter Robo and Getter Robo G. "Shin Getter Robo vs Neo Getter Robo" LOOSELY combines Armageddon, GO and the original. Shin Getter Robo...wow...where to start. I think the only thing it has in common is the names of the characters and the name "Getter" I've only seen 3 episodes, but it looks to me like its random Oni attacking.
In each case of an AU Getter - They KEEP the names Hayato Jin, Michiru Saotome and Professor/Doctor Saotome intact. Ryo has over the years become Ryoma/Ryouma. Musashi and Benkei have merged together to form Benkei Musashibo. But in any case, I don't see Getter fans bashing the AU Getters for ruining Getter's legacy.
Bubblegum Crisis fans must also be up in arms. - BGC and BGCrash fans must be terribly afraid of BGC2040 and 2041. I haven't seen all of BGC or any of BGC2041, but I can imagine that using the EXACT SAME NAMES of the ENTIRE CAST must be very offensive.
The fact of the matter is, AUs in animes are common and they receive very little opposition to the general fan base - otherwise they wouldn't be so popular. Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Nuku Nuku, X/1999, Silent Mobius, Macross, Evangelion, Escaflowne, Tenchi, Slayers, Patlabor, Azumanga Daioh, Mazinger Z, Iron Man 28, Speed Racer, Read or Die, Devilman, Cutey Honey and Revolutionary Girl Utena all have their very own examples of AUs. All of which follow a similar basic pattern, yet they aren't nearly as harshly criticized as AU Gundam attempts- which go an extra step of defining new characters and settings.
I've seen Getter Robo and it's AU offshoots - I like the AUs much more. Same goes for BGC vs BGC2040 and the same certainly goes for Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Gundam SEED and G Gundam over their UC counterparts.
Whereas Getter Robo Armageddon takes Getter Robo and makes it BETTER, AU Gundam takes the basic names of inanimate objects, creates new names, and changes the story altogether.
What makes Gundam so different? What makes Gundam Wing and Gundam SEED so reviled by one group of people, but this same group of people has no problem at all with the relationship between Getter Robo and Getter Robo: Armageddon? There really is no logical or rational explanation. Especially since the relationship that Getter Robo: Armageddon has with Getter Robo is much like the relationship SEED and Wing have with MSG. This is to say - taking the original and making a better version.
Personally, I think its petty elitism which has...for some reason...has infested the Gundam community, pitting AU vs UC and more especially, SEED or Wing against everyone else. Gundam is the largest and most popular out of all mecha series - by numbers. Literally tens of thousands of people around the world like Gundam and rate it as among their favorites. The same isn't necessarily true of Getter or Macross. While Getter and Macross have strong, reliable fan bases, but you don't see "SHIN GETTER VS NEO GETTER SUCKS!" websites. There are several anti-Wing sites though.
There are those in the Gundam fan community, whom no matter how badly you disprove them, always hail UC as the best and always worship Yoshiyuki Tomino is God. I don't discount the work he's done for Gundam- MSG, Zeta, ZZ, CCA and F-91 are all very good. But after F-91, he's shown how bad he gets. Victory Gundam was enjoyable from time to time, but it is by no stretch of the imagination a GOOD show. Same goes for the atrocious Turn-A, which many have noted I no longer add "Gundam" to its title when addressing it.
Certainly, I'm a partisan. I'm definately on the side of the AUs...or at least 5 of them over UC every time. I always will be. While it's true I did like almost all of UC...save for a single OVA and a single TV series, as a whole, UC is inferior to AU. Even though I loved 08th MS Team, 0080, MS Gundam as well as most of UC, I find that my biggest grudge isn't the stupid, nonsensical Tomino-style actions that are found all over the early UCs as it is the fans of Gundam themselves. My entire basis of my "hatred" for Turn-A stems from people who hail Turn-A as being the best ever, when they don't really open their eyes and see it for the ridiculous, mindless, remedial sludge it truly is. As I examine my position as an "AUist" I see that the hardcore UCists, which only charge G Gundam and Turn-A as being "true" AUs, are loads of crap. Merely being a universe other than UC makes them alternate histories. And in almost every case, the Successor universes are better than the Universal Century.
By the way, I put this in the General Gundam Talk for a reason - while it starts off being in defense of SEED/SEED-D, it goes go on to project all of Gundam, and even other animes.
*Before I start, I want you all to know, this is INTENDED to inflame people. It's a VERY polarized essay I've written. It also contains various spoilers from each series. But I think everyone here has seen almost all, if not all, of Gundam.*
When Gundam SEED came out in 2002, I was distressed at the use of Haro in the series. After all, Haro was a well known and well loved Universal Century character and he was suddenly being shrunk down to 1/4th his original size and given a new paint job. I was outraged. "I liked the original Haro! This was some new imposter!" I thought. But over time, I grew tolerance for Haro "2". I actually liked Haro 2's commentary (annoying as it could be).
Now we're faced with Zakus. So far, there are approximately 6 types of Zaku variants thus far in SEED. At first I was outraged. "The Zaku is a well known and loved UC MS that doesn't belong in another series." I thought.
In less time than it took for me to get over Haro, I've gotten over the Zaku. Who cares if it's a UC MS name in an AU series. Why does it matter? "Zaku" is a name. That's all it is. By the same token 'Zaku' shouldn't be used, the name Gundam' shouldn't be used either. Which means G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Endless Waltz, Turn-A, Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny shouldn't have existed - or at least not using the terms "Gundam" "Mobile Suit" "Beam Saber." For that matter, Sai Argyle shouldn’t exist because someone named Sai was in G Gundam. Ridiculous? I think so.
For that matter, we can apply it all over the place. After Getter Robo GO, there are no solid continuations in the Getter Robo Saga. 'Getter Robo: Armageddon' LOOSELY combines Getter Robo and Getter Robo G. "Shin Getter Robo vs Neo Getter Robo" LOOSELY combines Armageddon, GO and the original. Shin Getter Robo...wow...where to start. I think the only thing it has in common is the names of the characters and the name "Getter" I've only seen 3 episodes, but it looks to me like its random Oni attacking.
In each case of an AU Getter - They KEEP the names Hayato Jin, Michiru Saotome and Professor/Doctor Saotome intact. Ryo has over the years become Ryoma/Ryouma. Musashi and Benkei have merged together to form Benkei Musashibo. But in any case, I don't see Getter fans bashing the AU Getters for ruining Getter's legacy.
Bubblegum Crisis fans must also be up in arms. - BGC and BGCrash fans must be terribly afraid of BGC2040 and 2041. I haven't seen all of BGC or any of BGC2041, but I can imagine that using the EXACT SAME NAMES of the ENTIRE CAST must be very offensive.
The fact of the matter is, AUs in animes are common and they receive very little opposition to the general fan base - otherwise they wouldn't be so popular. Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Nuku Nuku, X/1999, Silent Mobius, Macross, Evangelion, Escaflowne, Tenchi, Slayers, Patlabor, Azumanga Daioh, Mazinger Z, Iron Man 28, Speed Racer, Read or Die, Devilman, Cutey Honey and Revolutionary Girl Utena all have their very own examples of AUs. All of which follow a similar basic pattern, yet they aren't nearly as harshly criticized as AU Gundam attempts- which go an extra step of defining new characters and settings.
I've seen Getter Robo and it's AU offshoots - I like the AUs much more. Same goes for BGC vs BGC2040 and the same certainly goes for Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Gundam SEED and G Gundam over their UC counterparts.
Whereas Getter Robo Armageddon takes Getter Robo and makes it BETTER, AU Gundam takes the basic names of inanimate objects, creates new names, and changes the story altogether.
What makes Gundam so different? What makes Gundam Wing and Gundam SEED so reviled by one group of people, but this same group of people has no problem at all with the relationship between Getter Robo and Getter Robo: Armageddon? There really is no logical or rational explanation. Especially since the relationship that Getter Robo: Armageddon has with Getter Robo is much like the relationship SEED and Wing have with MSG. This is to say - taking the original and making a better version.
Personally, I think its petty elitism which has...for some reason...has infested the Gundam community, pitting AU vs UC and more especially, SEED or Wing against everyone else. Gundam is the largest and most popular out of all mecha series - by numbers. Literally tens of thousands of people around the world like Gundam and rate it as among their favorites. The same isn't necessarily true of Getter or Macross. While Getter and Macross have strong, reliable fan bases, but you don't see "SHIN GETTER VS NEO GETTER SUCKS!" websites. There are several anti-Wing sites though.
There are those in the Gundam fan community, whom no matter how badly you disprove them, always hail UC as the best and always worship Yoshiyuki Tomino is God. I don't discount the work he's done for Gundam- MSG, Zeta, ZZ, CCA and F-91 are all very good. But after F-91, he's shown how bad he gets. Victory Gundam was enjoyable from time to time, but it is by no stretch of the imagination a GOOD show. Same goes for the atrocious Turn-A, which many have noted I no longer add "Gundam" to its title when addressing it.
Certainly, I'm a partisan. I'm definately on the side of the AUs...or at least 5 of them over UC every time. I always will be. While it's true I did like almost all of UC...save for a single OVA and a single TV series, as a whole, UC is inferior to AU. Even though I loved 08th MS Team, 0080, MS Gundam as well as most of UC, I find that my biggest grudge isn't the stupid, nonsensical Tomino-style actions that are found all over the early UCs as it is the fans of Gundam themselves. My entire basis of my "hatred" for Turn-A stems from people who hail Turn-A as being the best ever, when they don't really open their eyes and see it for the ridiculous, mindless, remedial sludge it truly is. As I examine my position as an "AUist" I see that the hardcore UCists, which only charge G Gundam and Turn-A as being "true" AUs, are loads of crap. Merely being a universe other than UC makes them alternate histories. And in almost every case, the Successor universes are better than the Universal Century.
By the way, I put this in the General Gundam Talk for a reason - while it starts off being in defense of SEED/SEED-D, it goes go on to project all of Gundam, and even other animes.